1/6 Dragon Schwimmwagen - rc conversion

For the serious discussion of RC Tank building and general engineering matters.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Humpy
Forum Administrator
Posts: 3581
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:41 pm
Location: SE UK The Garden Of England
Contact:

Re: 1/6 Dragon Schwimmwagen - rc conversion

Post by Humpy » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:54 am

I now know that the steering wheels travel 30 degrees either way from the 12 o'clock position thanks to an enquiry to a well known Schwimmwagen owner, thanks Vince :) This means that my idea for the front suspension should work (give or take a bit!) but I still need to dream up some arrangement for the drive hub/steering knuckle. I have an idea how to make a steering knuckle but not having any experience with RC cars I don't know how the drive shafts and bearings all fit together. Anybody?

Humpy
UKTC President

Bryan The Bastard-JagdPanther 132, Ermintrude-SdKfz251 133, Thors Hammer Stug IV 135, Arwen 1/4 Panther 136, 137!!, Iveco 75R15 In Service!

tiger tank sean
Posts: 353
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:22 am

Re: 1/6 Dragon Schwimmwagen - rc conversion

Post by tiger tank sean » Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:50 pm

hi stuart
have you looked at the hpi baja range, all metal drive cups shafts turnbuckles etc it also has a goood stearing servo saver method to run the front stearing system and the baja is 1.5th
cheers sean
1/6th tiger-1 (mark-1-tank) 1/6th 251 halftack (mark-1-tank)

User avatar
Humpy
Forum Administrator
Posts: 3581
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:41 pm
Location: SE UK The Garden Of England
Contact:

Re: 1/6 Dragon Schwimmwagen - rc conversion

Post by Humpy » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:39 pm

Cheers Sean, I'll take a look!

Edit: Just been through Ebay and there's almost nothing there of interest :(

Humpy
UKTC President

Bryan The Bastard-JagdPanther 132, Ermintrude-SdKfz251 133, Thors Hammer Stug IV 135, Arwen 1/4 Panther 136, 137!!, Iveco 75R15 In Service!

User avatar
jagdpanther
Posts: 852
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:37 pm
Location: south wales , ( the old one )
Contact:

Re: 1/6 Dragon Schwimmwagen - rc conversion

Post by jagdpanther » Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:41 pm

Skippy,s your man for info on this , il see if i can get hold of him , he used to race buggies at national level.
1/6th Jagdpanther, various 1/6th motorcycles,1/6th mercedes staff car


Was zur Hölle war, dass

User avatar
Skippy_fx140
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:38 pm
Location: Nr Hull East Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: 1/6 Dragon Schwimmwagen - rc conversion

Post by Skippy_fx140 » Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:50 pm

HPI Baja parts are no good what so ever for that conversion as they are way too big and wont fit in any case, if you want scale looking front suspension you will be better of looking for the old Tamiya sand scorcher front end or the ranger f150, or possibly a holiday buggy, I believe these are on a re-release by Tamiya, however this would render the 4 wheel drive idea useless though, as for the rear end any 1/10th scale buggy back end would do but may need hub mods doing, or depending on how the set-up of the back of the project is set out you may be able to use the full back end from one of the above but I’m not sure how the torsion bar suspension would fit though, also the back end of the above contains the full diff plus gears and the motor that has easy access to it.

Hope this helps :)

Look at the links they might be of use :)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/58452-Tamiya-Off- ... trolled_JN
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tamiya-Sand-Scorc ... trolled_JN
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tamiya-Sand-Scorc ... trolled_JN
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TAMIYA-58452-SAND ... trolled_JN
Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. :P

User avatar
jagdpanther
Posts: 852
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:37 pm
Location: south wales , ( the old one )
Contact:

Re: 1/6 Dragon Schwimmwagen - rc conversion

Post by jagdpanther » Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:00 pm

Like this one ?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sand-Scorcher-201 ... trolled_JN

If the front end suspension is trailing arm as per the original kubel and schwimwagen , how can they have been 4 wheel drive as this would rip the suspension at the front to peices as it would be to flexible.
1/6th Jagdpanther, various 1/6th motorcycles,1/6th mercedes staff car


Was zur Hölle war, dass

User avatar
Humpy
Forum Administrator
Posts: 3581
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:41 pm
Location: SE UK The Garden Of England
Contact:

Re: 1/6 Dragon Schwimmwagen - rc conversion

Post by Humpy » Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:44 am

Skippy,

Thanks for the info and the links. I was going to try and keep the suspension more or less as it was as it's so simple. It's just the steering knuckle and drive hubs that I'm stuck on. What I'll try and do is trawl through Ebay and find some parts rather than the whole kit and waste a lot! I'm away this weekend so I'll have a look Monday :)

Humpy
UKTC President

Bryan The Bastard-JagdPanther 132, Ermintrude-SdKfz251 133, Thors Hammer Stug IV 135, Arwen 1/4 Panther 136, 137!!, Iveco 75R15 In Service!

User avatar
Skippy_fx140
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:38 pm
Location: Nr Hull East Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: 1/6 Dragon Schwimmwagen - rc conversion

Post by Skippy_fx140 » Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:41 pm

Hi Stuart,
If you use any of the Tamiya front ends I mentioned you will find that they are remarkably like the real thing and easily modified. Drive hubs well the easiest way is to use 1/10th scale parts to be honest as they are a little bit on the narrow side so this gives the ability to hack up some standard wheel rims, they can then be bonded to the rims of the schwimmwagen or the kubelwagen. If I remember rightly you can modify the centre of the dragon kit wheel so that you can use a small box spanner to remove the wheels if need be, I would have sent you some pics if you had of mentioned this a few months back but I had a clear out as I had 900gig plus of junk and I needed the space so in the bin they went sadly :(

There is another option though and it’s cheaper :) I think it was Mark “Mr Rivet Counter” that suggested to me that I use the Tamiya Gravel Hound when I did my Kubel and it worked fine I seem to think the Schwimmwagens are more of less the same kind of set up, and it’s not to crucial if it’s just going to be a land vehicle :) I think the gravel Hound chassis type was a DF-02 and was used on a few 4x4 buggies.

Hope this rambling session is of use :)

Hmm I seem to think it's food time :P
Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. :P

User avatar
jdflute
Posts: 546
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:44 am
Location: Sultanate of Oman

Re: 1/6 Dragon Schwimmwagen - rc conversion

Post by jdflute » Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:26 pm

You could always try something like this

http://www.tcscrawlers.com/Axial-AX10-L ... 16410.html

Good luck
Jd
1/16th T34 85 - Parade Ready
1/12th Abrams - Parade Ready
1/8 Merkava MkIII - Buiding Stage

SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES.
NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS

User avatar
Humpy
Forum Administrator
Posts: 3581
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:41 pm
Location: SE UK The Garden Of England
Contact:

Re: 1/6 Dragon Schwimmwagen - rc conversion

Post by Humpy » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:48 pm

Thanks for all the info guys, keep it coming. It's something I've never really dealt with before so the more the merrier!

I was at the 'Combined Ops' show at Headcorn at the weekend and there was a real Schwimmwagen there which I managed to get a load of up close pics of the suspension and detail bits so that will help. Also managed to get our man Howard (slightly!) interested so there's hope for the project yet :) Graham Ayris was at the show with his excellent Jeep model which was an eye opener for 2WD and we had a chat about 'stuff' while we were there. All good groundwork.

Humpy
UKTC President

Bryan The Bastard-JagdPanther 132, Ermintrude-SdKfz251 133, Thors Hammer Stug IV 135, Arwen 1/4 Panther 136, 137!!, Iveco 75R15 In Service!

Fred
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:41 pm
Location: Belfast, NI

Re: 1/6 Dragon Schwimmwagen - rc conversion

Post by Fred » Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:47 am

Hi Folks
I should really give some input here. I purchased a schwimmwagen months ago and have explored a couple of options for making it RC. My initial plan was to copy the original trailing arm suspension for the rear. The rubber gaiter is a cut down baja UJ cover from ebay. I will have to scratch build a gearbox and linkage to the prop but I was thinking of just making it rear wheel drive to keep things simple. This should work fine and be able to float.
Image

Another option would be to use the tamiya gravel hound parts. These are the right width and should make a good land runner but You will have to make large cut outs in the body which would be difficult to seal. If a tamiya car chassis is used, additional gearing will be required to provide more torque since these things are built for speed, not power and the schwimmwagen will be quite heavy. I think that a 540 motor and racing pack should be fine for drive power though. The photo below shows a gravel hound front end against the chassis. It might be possible to just use front wheel drive if I could seal the front of the hull off with a bulkhead.

Image

Hope these ideas are helpful
Fred

User avatar
Humpy
Forum Administrator
Posts: 3581
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:41 pm
Location: SE UK The Garden Of England
Contact:

Re: 1/6 Dragon Schwimmwagen - rc conversion

Post by Humpy » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:09 pm

All interesting stuff Fred. We (the Royal we ;) ) have decided not to have working suspension after spying the one at Headcorn last weekend only had an inch or so of travel on front and rear suspension! Otherwise we're thinking of replicating the suspension arrangements as in the original. We've also identified some suitable gearboxes (maybe). The idea of just having drive shafts exiting the bath tub will be easier to waterproof!!!

Humpy
UKTC President

Bryan The Bastard-JagdPanther 132, Ermintrude-SdKfz251 133, Thors Hammer Stug IV 135, Arwen 1/4 Panther 136, 137!!, Iveco 75R15 In Service!

User avatar
PanzerCommander
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 12:57 pm

Re: 1/6 Dragon Schwimmwagen - rc conversion

Post by PanzerCommander » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:47 pm

I don't know if you've seen this but this is a converted Schwimmwagen that actually swims:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM-V5ZL7 ... re=related

Maybe get in touch with him and ask how he converted his.

User avatar
Humpy
Forum Administrator
Posts: 3581
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:41 pm
Location: SE UK The Garden Of England
Contact:

Re: 1/6 Dragon Schwimmwagen - rc conversion

Post by Humpy » Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:37 am

Yes I have seen that one and there's one or two others on YouTube as well. It seems a fairly accurate model in that it's got the twin torsion bar front axle and the reduction gearing on the inside of the rear hubs. You can't see if the rest of the rear suspension is the same or not. I may well drop the guy a line and hope that he doesn't reply in Japanese :D The rear wheels going round with the prop let it down a bit though, I'm sure the real things only drove the prop in the water not the wheels as well. Must be 2WD as well as only the rears are going round! Still, his works, mines a box of bits :(

Humpy
UKTC President

Bryan The Bastard-JagdPanther 132, Ermintrude-SdKfz251 133, Thors Hammer Stug IV 135, Arwen 1/4 Panther 136, 137!!, Iveco 75R15 In Service!

Fred
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:41 pm
Location: Belfast, NI

Re: 1/6 Dragon Schwimmwagen - rc conversion

Post by Fred » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:43 am

I have done a bit of work on my schwimmwagen so now it has rear wheel power and a take off for the propeller.
Image

Image

Image

The gearbox is a very simple arrangement, just made from off the shelf parts and giving a ratio of about 30:1. Although I have access to a machine shop, I only required a pillar drill to make the gearbox. The take off for the prop is slightly too high to be correct for scale but it will have to do. You can see that the suspension arrangement is very crude but its all that I could fit into the confined space available. Its worth remembering that the styrene plastic used on this kit is not nearly as tough as ABS so any point forces like suspension springs should be spread over as large an area as possible to avoid stress cracks.

Fred

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest