1/6 Scale Chain

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olly weston
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Re: 1/6 Scale Chain

Post by olly weston » Wed May 06, 2009 10:13 am

It's only a chain! Not an integral part of the tank body work! Why so pedantic and picky?
Hello there. All Kent is asking for is some proof that they did this. There proberly is a picture out there on the WWW land, but far to many to look through.

Kent is a modler of the highest order, and if i ever turn out to have the super keen eyes and knowledge that he has, i will be happy. Gabe, nice picture of the PZ11. thats now my wallpaper

Oli
1/6th Pz 11 Running, but not 100% finished. 1/6th Panther being built very very slowly. Based On a Panther from the LSSAH Division during heavy fighting in the Ardennes. Peipers unit was one of the elite

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hatakashi
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Re: 1/6 Scale Chain

Post by hatakashi » Wed May 06, 2009 10:18 am

Glad you like that Pz II piccie Olly, I actually found loads!!!

hehehe I'm again going through my books for a Late War Panzer with chains on. Then again...if us (modellers) could think of putting chains on tanks, surely German Panzer Crews would have thought that too :lol:

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olly weston
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Re: 1/6 Scale Chain

Post by olly weston » Wed May 06, 2009 10:26 am

thanks gabe, i found quite a few too. iam sure there was an exception to the rule. Besides, you could always take a B&W photo of your KT and pass it off :lol: :lol:
1/6th Pz 11 Running, but not 100% finished. 1/6th Panther being built very very slowly. Based On a Panther from the LSSAH Division during heavy fighting in the Ardennes. Peipers unit was one of the elite

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Re: 1/6 Scale Chain

Post by Colonel_Kramer » Wed May 06, 2009 10:56 am

Over the years there have been questions about all sorts of things adorning tanks. I am sure that if you look hard enough you can find a picture with what you want to put on your tank , but was that common practice.

Things like fuel cans stored externally, in combat?? Would you really go into battle with a bomb strapped on the outside. Would you have your stores and general clutter over the engine grills of a tiger in combat, I think not! given that the engines were weak enough as it was without helping to make it over heat. A bucket dangling off the back, very common sight on models, but how many bullet holes in it would reneder it useless, Oh yes just the one.

Chain, all german tanks had tow cables, man enough for a SdKfZ 7 to pull a tank with, why would you have chain.

The German's were not stupid, they put zimmert on the outside so nothing magnetic would stick to anything important and do damage. If they had clutter on the outside it would be when moving from one place to another and I suggest not in combat. Danglie bits get caught in things, danglie bits getting caught does damage, damage causes problems.

Kent has more of an eye for detail that I ever will, if he questions the use of chain, then I would accept that.
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hatakashi
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Re: 1/6 Scale Chain

Post by hatakashi » Wed May 06, 2009 11:02 am

Well said Colonel, in terms of buckets, well not just on models, we see them on Panzers in many wartime photos.
In terms of chains, it's logical to assume that some crews might have kept chains for maintenance purposes like lifting engine deck etc
I still remember I've seen a photo of Panther with chains hanging off it's front, still searching ;)

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Re: 1/6 Scale Chain

Post by littlebuttons » Wed May 06, 2009 11:22 am

Colonel_Kramer wrote: Kent has more of an eye for detail that I ever will, if he questions the use of chain, then I would accept that.

As a person with free will and thought I am happy to be able to question and not accept blindly, someone else comments. I research and find out the correct information myself normally rather than take someone elses word for it whom I don't know.

After all even great scientists have been disproved with their categorical statements. Just because one person says it is correct doesn't mean it is.

With regard to keen eyes it has already been indicated that Panzer tanks with chains existed in WW2, so obviously people were not looking hard enough.

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hatakashi
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Re: 1/6 Scale Chain

Post by hatakashi » Wed May 06, 2009 11:42 am

Chain on a Tiger

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KWK088
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Re: 1/6 Scale Chain

Post by KWK088 » Wed May 06, 2009 1:20 pm

Nice now we discuss tanks and their add on for a change :D

That chain(?) is a very short one...
Well, we can agree that chains on Panzers and especially late in war are a very, very rare sight.
In fact I have seen more ww2 photos with live animals carried outside Tigers and Panthers then I have seen chains :shock:
But never have I seen a 1:6th rc tank with a goat, pig or a duck...

If people want to hang chains, T34 track plate on a Normandy tank or place a MG42 instead of a MG34-T in the "Fliegerbeschussgerät" or whatever, well go ahead and do so.
It’s your money and tank - but be peppered as someone like me might object ;)
But please don’t say "why not? how do you know? were you there?" or my favourite "having no evidence for being so doesn’t exclude it didn’t happened" :?

I fun part of our hobby is to have items put on our tanks.
1:6th have a lot of them on the market and I see how tempting a hanging chain might be.
Sad as I said it was very, very rare seen.
A bucket is a must have as almost every German afv had one in more or less bad shape but they are almost every time seen hanging from something sticking out from the tank.
Wire for attaching branches is very common seen after spring 1944 as are zeltbahn and cammo net especially when the tank is on a road march.
The gun barrel was discussed with hanging branches or held in place with wire or as LSSAH Panthers in Normandy with chicken wire - never have I seen "stockings" been used specially on a KT.
Cammo netting on Africa/Sicily Tigers barrels yes, but not later in war.
In fact it was against regulation to cover the barrel as the cooling was reduced and the KwK might jam - not that good! :D

Off topic but hatakashi do you have a ww2 photo on a KT with barrel-stockings.
Would be most interesting to see one – we all learn something new every day and that is one of the fun parts of our hobby

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Kent
1/6th T34-85, 1/8th Panther Ausf A #424, 1/8th T34-85, 1/6th Hetzer kit, 1/6th Panther G kit, 1/6th Tiger1 Late kit and a 1/6th Panzer IV kit

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hatakashi
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Re: 1/6 Scale Chain

Post by hatakashi » Wed May 06, 2009 2:27 pm

Barrel stockings on KT?
This is the photo in which I based my ideas on, not "exactly" stockings but close enough :lol:
I used a bit of "modeller's imagination" and created the stockings....although my last 1/6 KT I did get quite close to that photo

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rivetcounter
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Re: 1/6 Scale Chain

Post by rivetcounter » Wed May 06, 2009 8:05 pm

The picture of the Panzer II with chains I don't think is a war time picture the tank is far too clean there are no covers on the head lamps with only a small rectangle to allow a limited amount of light.

Kent has spent many years studying in great detail Panzer's from this era and I can assure you chains if seen where as common as seeing Himmler commanding a Tiger in battle however you may See Tigers & Panthers chained to rail flat cars but one disembarkation has taken place the chains would be left on the rail car for the next tank.

Gabriel, the picture you have shown is very blared but it shows a Tiger II from SPzAbt 506 during the Ardene's offensive netting or barrel socks where not used chicken wire or plain wire was used with branches entwined there are plenty of picture showing burnt out Panzer's with the wire in place again Kent is correct if a net was used and I have never seen a Panther or Tiger with one then it would have been taken from a British tank even the Americans used wire and chicken wire, as for stowage most modelers think of German armour in the same way they think of US armour Panthers and Tigers where rarely if ever covered in stowage, the main gun of Tigers and Panthers was used as a butchers hook for butchering animals there are plenty of pictures showing this usually on a rail car
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Merlin Barnes
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Re: 1/6 Scale Chain

Post by Merlin Barnes » Wed May 06, 2009 9:11 pm

As they say, "Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence".

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olly weston
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Re: 1/6 Scale Chain

Post by olly weston » Wed May 06, 2009 10:02 pm

good gravey rivet, how did you get all that from that single black and white photo? that blew my socks off...
1/6th Pz 11 Running, but not 100% finished. 1/6th Panther being built very very slowly. Based On a Panther from the LSSAH Division during heavy fighting in the Ardennes. Peipers unit was one of the elite

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Re: 1/6 Scale Chain

Post by Merlin Barnes » Wed May 06, 2009 11:20 pm

"To Have or not have chains". Would that come in the same category as having the wrong size bolt or the wrong colour smoke?? My Tiger has plenty of smoke and probably a lot of "wrong size" bolts but it's never had any chains. I think that a trip to B & Q is called for--to collect a pile of chain and a bottle of vinegar. :greetings-clappingorange: :greetings-clappingyellow: :greetings-clapyellow:
I have read that it was the Germanic philosophy of insisting that their mechanical devices be 110% accurate in all respects, that help towards their defeat in the last war.------probably ran out of vinegar. :confusion-confused: :flags-wavegreatbritain: :handgestures-salute:

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hatakashi
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Re: 1/6 Scale Chain

Post by hatakashi » Thu May 07, 2009 2:58 am

Oh oh sadly there aren't too many photos of Tigers with barrel netting/wrappnigs, few from Tunia and I found another one on the Eastern front, but maybe it was moss :D
haha and on the fun side, I did find a Tiger's barrel covered the wrapping!

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hatakashi
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Re: 1/6 Scale Chain

Post by hatakashi » Thu May 07, 2009 3:09 am

And this one is a funny photo, I used to think that it was the reaminader of barrel wrapping/netting on this KT.
And a Tiger with Barrel stockings

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