CRARRV Build Update

For the serious discussion of RC Tank building and general engineering matters.

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
Rob
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:56 pm

Re: CRARRV Build Update

Post by Rob » Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:48 am

Wow.
I never expected this model to end up with the level of detail it has got now.

I enjoyed the basic build, the easy bit, but I'm really glad that someone with the necessary skills and patience is doing the hard bit !
Nice one Andy.
I am constantly amazed at the levels that you, possum, bulldog, Rivetcounter and others are able to achieve.

User avatar
AndyR
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:37 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland, UK

Re: CRARRV Build Update

Post by AndyR » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:57 am

Thanks guys for the feedback.

I'm starting to see some meaningful progress, which means so much as its continuous progress ;)

I need to make some choice on paint soon, so Possum / Rob looking for some advice......

I need to prime and paint the stowage beam on a base colour, mainly because when I glue everything in place there will be nooks and crannies I cannot get back to.

The bits on the underside of the beam and behind the stowage boxes in particular.

I'm thinking about tame grey primer (same as everything done so far), then a couple of light coats of something like Olive drab.

I am planning on doing this as an Iraq / Afghanistan theme, so I reckon, an olive drab base coat and then paint the tan dessert camo on top with any crannies unpainted will effectively stay olive drab.

So what olive drab to go for, and what sort of medium, i.e. spray paint (going for coverage as opposed to detail).

Any advice appreciated.

Cheers
AndyR
Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy, Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy...........

Rob
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:56 pm

Re: CRARRV Build Update

Post by Rob » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:10 pm

Possum is the paint meister, but there is an osprey book entitled ' modelling the Challenger 1 and 2 MBT and variants' it's Osprey Modelling no 29.
Very good variety of colours/tints etc, as well as a superb CRARRV detail/wear version, admittedly its a 1995 Bosnia version, but does illustrate wear patterns very well.
Also covered are various sandy schemes on gun tanks. ( surprising difference in colours over the years )
If you want to have a look at it, shout and I will post it up with the final (front central) grill drawings.

User avatar
AndyR
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:37 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland, UK

Re: CRARRV Build Update

Post by AndyR » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:08 pm

Hi Rob,

I've got those book(s) thanks.

Will dig them out (i have 3x)......

Any tins of spray paint anybody could recommend?

Cheers
Andy
Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy, Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy...........

User avatar
possum
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:11 pm
Location: On the edge

Re: CRARRV Build Update

Post by possum » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:44 pm

Hi Andy,

Paint wise on the Chieftain & before that the M3A3 Stuart I hand painted a lot of the tank with grey primer. Some of the metal plate & casting will be not smooth so I stipple the primmer on ......a couple of coats for rough cast armour or thinner coat for plated areas. Being primmer... if looks heavy you can sand it down. I even leave the lid off to thicken the paint up. Good for texture, filling gaps, & sealing the tank.... getting texture right now will help when you add your final pin wash of dust over the tank.

The 1/35th boys sometimes prime their models in black, but I prime grey or red oxide then spray around all the plate lines, doors, hatches with a 1cm line of black. This is a shadow line giving you the impression of depth.

On the Chieftain I've been doing painting as I go, after looking at the real thing at shows & Bov Tank Museum they are very pitted, & roughly painted & have large areas of anti slip paint. Reading books on painting Chieftains, the paint was sometimes thinned down with diesel, then ether spray on or on the hard to reach areas hand painted. Chieftain Mk11 seem to have several layers of paint, guess they are to big to rub down. So even on newly painted tank the surface is not truly flat.

As the Chally is more resent & newer I'm guessing they will be less roughly painted, Rob will know more. Although the Chally & CRARRVs in Warminster had been painted a few times, Green & Black, Desert Sand, & a final coat of Green & Sand.

As the Chieftain is so much bigger than the little Stuart M3A3, I bought a 3L can of the late Chieftain Green off EBay. It can be thinned down with white sprit so it socks into my primmer. Can take nearly a week to truly dry, & adding more sprit makes a duller green. Any detail air brushing can be done later with Tamiya Or model air paint, or pin washes.

I'm no expert, my advice would be paint what you see, not what you think you see :?:
Now I'm confused

User avatar
AndyR
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:37 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland, UK

Re: CRARRV Build Update

Post by AndyR » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:54 pm

Possum,

Many thanks for such a helpful post.

I agree with the thrust of what your saying, i guess i'm wondering now about the mechanics of the painting so to speak, i get the theory about texture, but i'm a little unclear on the how.

What type of primer are you using?

I have currently been priming the model with Tamiya grey primer, so that it keys well (given the variation of material on my build).

I guess i could add another coat of primer to that as a texture layer, but how?

The Tamiya primer is quite thin, but hides the 3d parts layering quite well, so i still think a thin tamiya primer layer is good.

Also, do you paint the parts separately or mount them all on to the model permanently then paint what you see then?

I remember painting WH40k models and so understand the technique of using shadows and washes, just trying to get the basic mechanics understood on this size of model........

Thanks again possum, appreciate the advice given ;)

Cheers
Andy
Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy, Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy...........

User avatar
possum
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:11 pm
Location: On the edge

Re: CRARRV Build Update

Post by possum » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:41 pm

Hi Andy

Sorry wasn't sure how much experience you had with painting & weathering your 90% there by the sound of it. This is what works for me, but by no means is this the only way.

1. if I'm say... made a some part off the tank & its ok to fit into place, I'll prime off the tank eg wheels, bins, lights etc. Wheels I primed with etching spray paint as they are ally or cast ally masking bearing areas, then red oxide, & a green coat. Bins the same, but added non slip paint to lids, & a final green.

2. The main hull of the tank, ally etch prime with spray ... did this outside with a face mask horrible stuff. once dry I did other areas with a car paint hand paint primer, much cheaper than model shop paints & I find I can get the results I want.

3. I stipple prime armour texture using a 1/2 inch house hold brush on large areas & cut about 5cm off the bristles, I use tinned car primer. Smaller 1cm brush for small areas, you can cut brush again to get the right texture.
You need to work fast working over the area couple of times pulling the paint up a little before moving on. One side of my bottom hull took about 30mins to do one coat, let it dry, it will look patchy, do a second coat, maybe a 3rd until happy. Let it really dry back, it will shrink back to a hard-shell.

4. Parts that need to be super glued on I do not paint. Parts that I can bolt on I do paint. If the hull is painted & need to glue something on, the paint is sanded back.

5.The new tined car primers are ok on plastic, plastic card, metals. some are even water based. You will get better texture after the lid has been off for a hour, I also put the paint onto a pallet or old bit of wood & work off of it. Stipple on the pallet or wood then onto your model.

6. You will kill your brushes doing stippling & texturing, so have a few old brushes available.

7.3D parts I have spray primed with car primer, others I have hand painted & textured because I wanted a cast look to them. had no problem with paint adhering.

8. DIY sample paint pots are also great, they are mostly acrylic paint, waterproof, & a cheaper way of painting larger assorted items, or mud, dust pin washes on large areas.

9. You can also stipple or texture on your 1st top coat of colour using a brush. And spray colour later if you wish.

10. Try a small area 1st.

Hope that helps Andy, both me & Rob are using car spray primer. And I've used tinned grey car paint on 4 or 5 large 1/6 models.

Cheers Gary

User avatar
AndyR
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:37 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland, UK

Re: CRARRV Build Update

Post by AndyR » Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:18 pm

Hi Possum,

Sorry missed this post.

Can you advise on which brands your using and which tin / tub of primer??

Cheers
Andy

Edited, re-read your post, understand what you mean now :)
Last edited by AndyR on Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy, Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy...........

User avatar
AndyR
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:37 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland, UK

Re: CRARRV Build Update

Post by AndyR » Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:39 pm

So kids at the grandparents this weekend and some drawings with Rob for him to review.

So i had effectively a day off to spend on the CRARRV......

Printer has been hammered again today ;)

I do like this HIPS material, seems to resist warping really well, not perfect but definitely is better.

So I decided to print out the 2nd last hatch on the CRARRV, I call it the mechanics hatch, but not sure its proper name.

Image

I had a few errors along the way, mainly due to scale issues, i.e. the first print while successful did't look right.

I also had a delivery of 1" oak dowels from eBay (£10 for 5m worth) so allowed me to finalise the timber posts on CRARRV, got them cut and fitted. i reckon they will rough up and stain up nice, just like the real thing.

Image

Image

I did find that the tool boxes I built on the stowage beam are too long, so i need to remake them, which is a proper pain as it took ages the first time, never mind, I know what I'm doing this time so should go a lot faster.

I have two parcels of filament being delivered next week, so progress will not be hindered due to material. But I also have a scout camp to participate in, so next weekend is a complete write off - :D October camp, which involves white water rafting and some hikes.

Cheers
Andy
Last edited by AndyR on Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy, Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy...........

User avatar
AndyR
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:37 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland, UK

Re: CRARRV Build Update

Post by AndyR » Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:42 pm

More photos...

Image

Image

Boxes I need to remake, too long....
Image
Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy, Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy...........

User avatar
AndyR
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:37 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland, UK

Re: CRARRV Build Update

Post by AndyR » Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:43 pm

mechanics hatch, mixture of rev 1 and rev 2 parts here ;)

Image

Image

Cheers
Andy
Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy, Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy...........

User avatar
possum
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:11 pm
Location: On the edge

Re: CRARRV Build Update

Post by possum » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:57 am

Hi Andy,

Looks like you have been cracking on with the build & its looking brilliant. Really like the new 3D printed parts, especially the mechanics hatch, looks very much like the Chieftains loaders hatch.

You have put me to shame as due to work commitment haven't had time to work on my build :evil: Hope to have one day next week.
Anyway keep your photos coming, really helps inspire me to more work on my build, still slowly working my way sorting out the drive axles & gearing :roll:

Cheers Gary

User avatar
possum
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:11 pm
Location: On the edge

Re: CRARRV Build Update

Post by possum » Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:48 pm

Hi Andy,

just re-read your post asking me about primer brands, totally missed it & went for your new photos.

At moment on the chieftain I'm using a hammerite primer, but I have used the Halfords own band paint can 250ml. It go's a long way & is much cheaper.
Also experimented with some fine play sand mixed with some green paint for anti slip, found painting on a light coat, then adding some sprinkled sand, stipple in with more green. Worked good on the gnarly old Chieftain deck.

But on the RAG site & a guy on Facebook were cutting the anti slip out of sandpaper gluing on then painting. Looks good on the more modern Chally.

Hope that helps
Gary

User avatar
AndyR
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:37 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland, UK

Re: CRARRV Build Update

Post by AndyR » Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:50 pm

possum wrote:Hi Andy,

Looks like you have been cracking on with the build & its looking brilliant. Really like the new 3D printed parts, especially the mechanics hatch, looks very much like the Chieftains loaders hatch.

You have put me to shame as due to work commitment haven't had time to work on my build :evil: Hope to have one day next week.
Anyway keep your photos coming, really helps inspire me to more work on my build, still slowly working my way sorting out the drive axles & gearing :roll:

Cheers Gary
Hi Gary,

I think your right, its the loaders hatch from Chieftain and CR1, i'm not sure if its on CR2 or not. I noticed a mistake on the hatches tonight so i need to amend the model and re-print again - thats 3 times now!!!!!

Do you need a loaders hatch, once i have the design sorted I can print you one if you want?

I'll add it to the parts for sale section in case anybody else wants to build a CR1 or another chieftain.

I noticed a lot of design history on British vehicles, where they have lifted parts or assemblies from previous vehicles. probably revamped and improved the component but still closely aligns with its roots.

Is the hammerite pain the red-oxide or grey primer you use?

I like the sandpaper idea, might be worth a go, trouble is I'm not clear at all where the anti-slip was applied to CRARRV....

Cheers
Andy
Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy, Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy...........

User avatar
possum
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:11 pm
Location: On the edge

Re: CRARRV Build Update

Post by possum » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:54 pm

Hi Andy,

Yes please, I would love you to add the loaders hatch to your for sale list. As for the primer, I'm using mostly the grey, although I have used some red... but that's really for some repair work on my Delica 4x4 L300.

The Grey stuff I'm using at the moment is Hammerite No 1, which is quite thick but great for gap filling & getting a texture, also being an interior or exterior paint great for sealing & keeping the water & damp out. The no 1 stuff needs thinners to thin down or clean brushes, the water base stuff is also good but not as thick, but still good for texture & sealing.

Totally agree with your statement on British Tank design history, I looked back to the Centurion for some parts eg bin clasps, wheels & suspension parts. Gill at Armortek helped me out with suspension units, just needs a little adaption to some suspension parts but still very close.

Had a look at some CRARRV photos from Warminster, but haven't seen where or if the CRARRV had it, will take a better look when have more time.

Gary

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests